WomenCo.

mz-  I agree with you. I think "being sure" is what a committed relationship means. If you aren't sure, maybe the relationship isn't what you think it is.

Your welcome. The verse further explains my logic...there is just certain things that love should not be...and uncertain and hurtful is one of them.

I'm very much in love with the man I've been dating for almos 2 years.  And he is wonderful.  He is extremely handicapped emotionaly.  He does love, and is a great, kind and giving person.  He cannot SAY it, he cannot SHOW it in the conventional ways.  And he cannot be committed in the normal way. Not referring to cheating or anything along those lines.  But knowing you are committed in permanence with another human being.  This goes for his family, friends.  It is extremely strange.  He is  marvelous friend, but not lover.  And I agree, I should always know and be sure, and feel safe in our committment to each other, but I don't.  And I'm so torn.  I know I should end it.  Yet it kills me to walk away.  We do have so much fun together, and I love his family.  I know though, that a relationship is just about a good time to him.  He has no understanding of all of the deeper layers to a true permanent connection. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with questioning it upon occasion, and also whether your concerns are really about him or  about your own self doubt...

Watchnstarz44 says ...

In a relationship of any kind always listen to your inner self.  As Oprah says, that "Ah,ha" moment.  You almost always know in your heart as Brandylynn1975 mentioned what is there. If you go into a relationship seeing flaws that you think you can "fix", you have already got the wrong idea. If you love someone enough to take flaws and all,then that is a true relationship, because there is a good chance that they see your flaws and are doing the same. A true soulmate doesn't always have to hear words. Commitment is the answer. How strong it is depends on both individuals. And finally, Real life ain't about fairytales. Get over it.  The real work in a marriage starts After the "I dos."

Right on point Watchnstarz44.

Diva says ...

You are right, like Ms. Mya Angelou said in Madea's family reunion, "One thing love should never be is unsure". I am in that situation right now with a man that I have been with for 5 years.  I have a 6 year old daughter (that of course is not his) but he has been there since she was a baby.  My daughter absolutely loves him and although she knows who her real father is (I would never keep her from him) she knows that my boyfriend has been there for her and he really does love her.  My problem is that unlike most relationships that start out great and end up sour, ours started out sour and got somewhat better. He cheated on my repeatedly with a few different women and lied every chance he got.  I was absolutely in love with him in the begininning, I made wedding plans and everything, but he was still in love with his ex-girlfriend who he was with right before me.  Not only did he cheat on me but he was so disrespectful that I lost all respect for myself and let him and his family and friends treat me any way they wanted to. During the first 2 1/2 years we were together it was utter hell for me.  Now most people would wonder why I stayed with him so long and I ask myself the same question.  My first answer to that question would be that because I didn't have my father when I was young, I did not want the same for my daughter.  He doesn't have any children and my daughter became attached to him.  I left him about 2 or 3 times before and I still came back to him.  Now I do not trust him which in turn makes me not trust myself. I no longer want to get married and I do not have the same feelings about relationships that I use to.  He has changed since then, except for certain things that just really get on my nerves.  My point is that I stopped hating him and I started loving myself more and now I don't want to be in the relationship any longer.  The problem is that our families are close and we are close to each others families as well and I guess for me it is just the norm...if you understand what I mean.  I am trying to find a way to break it off peacefully but he is a difficult person to deal with.  The last time I expressed to him that I wanted to separate, he said that he could not be a father figure to my daughter if he is not with me.  That really disturbed me because I would not expect him to financially take care of my daughter because I can do that myself but all I would expect him to do is be there for her.  I am really frustrated with this and I am trying to decide the best way to end this.  It is not fair to me or him because I cannot treat him the way a woman treats the man she is in love with because I no longer am.  I love him dearly because he is very intelligent and spiritual but because of all that I have endured I no longer want the relationship.  I would hope that he and I can be friends but that is up to him.  Love should NEVER be unsure....it is a strong feeling that could make or break a person's spirit.  When you are with someone they should uplift you even in the bad times.  Love should never break you down emotionally, physically or mentally because that isn't love.  You should cry tears of joy not tears of sadness and he should be your rock and your foundation.  I would love comments on my situation ladies, I have a lot of love to give and I am glad to share this with other insightful and intelligent women.  Thanks for listening!!!

 

 Diva, I know you are in a sticking situation and I am very sorry to hear that. You seem very intelligent and I am so thankful that you do not want him. You can take care of your daughter all by yourself financially and emotionally. I am not here to give advice and I can't say I relate since I don't have children. However, I applaud you for recognizing that this is not the best relationship. It really isn't. The only thing I can say is that you have to have the strength to get out of your comfort zone. There are better things out there.

As for love being questioned, it should NEVER be questioned. Man or woman, always tell and show your boyfriend, partner, husband, etc. that you love him (or her).  I know opposite sex express things differently but "I LOVE YOU" is universal. Everyone understands this phrase. Use it. Why not? I consider my husband to be an "Alpha man" or a man's man. He's very competitive and aggressive. By no means will I ever call him a sensitive guy. But he also knows that I am his wife and when we are together, we LOVE each other.

“Been with 5 years…6 year old daughter…started sour, got better. He cheated…disrespectful…lost respect for myself…him, his family, friends treat(ed me)…(the way) they wanted…no longer want to get married…loving myself…don't want relationship…families close…just the norm…difficult person…expect him to be there for her…fair to him…love him because he is intelligent, spiritual.”

Hi Ms. Diva:

I read your post about your circumstance and ask you to bear with me as I share candid, direct thoughts about the image your words created (see excerpts above). As always respect is intended and engendered here, and in that being said I intend to be clear and create no wiggle room.

Your post alone indicates you realize something is amiss in this relation and as you look in the mirror and see your reflection you can’t see the impact of your childhood experiences, on your adult choices. From what you describe, this isn’t about your man being difficult or you loving him because he is intelligent and spiritual, or you staying so your daughter will have the benefit of a male figure in the house; it’s about you and the value you place on yourself, and what you have to offer.

To be frank, intelligent is as intelligent does and your man’s IQ comes across more in the range of his shoe size, then a value to take home and honor. You indicate you have left this man, only to return and learn nothing has changed and that you have experienced breach of goodwill and good faith, by him and his family, yet you remain because daughter likes him. And as much as you say you are the one responsible for you daughter, you provide that “(you) expect him to be there for her.”

Stop and think about the pattern of behavior you are experiencing, creating and the elements you are still looking to address in you; that your worth is innate and you deserve to be loved, honored and respected by others because you respect and honor your own boundaries.

This man isn’t available now, for you or for your daughter’s mental, spiritual health and looking for the right moment, right circumstance and right words to make this separation easy, isn’t going to happen.

If you consider that love is more then an emotion and you cognitively expand its meaning and value to incorporate actions and declarations by a significant other, then perhaps your eyes will ‘see’ your man is not able to and can not provide a nurturing, respectful, harmonious, spiritual engagement of the heart and mind not just with you- but with anyone.

I encourage you to reignite the power of your words with the intimacy you say you have to offer, by offering yourself the intimacy of self care and self appreciation, with no expectation that someone else will come along and bring you and your family together. It’s all you Ms. Diva and only you. Amazing as it seems, you discovering you is your lottery ticket to finding a satisfying, productive, mutually engaging relation.

So Stop loving for free or loving a man too much; at the conclusion of this response are affirmations to learn as you cultivate the personal space that will support and nurture your goals and who you are. And recognize you are the role model, whose actions and words will guide your daughter in her teenage years and in her first dating engagements. Lead the way by connecting the dots of self worth and self appreciation to everyday life. (On a side note; it is impossible to separate personal life from professional- the two are intimately connected with one being a window into the other.)

And we are here, WomenCo members and staff, cheering you on the whole way, tears and all, shame and all, love and all, with words of support and understanding. Because one way or another, through the lives of our friends, loves, family members we know the only way through challenging times, like this, is with the support of community members.

I do not know if I answered your questions or provided the insight you ask for, and this is not advice, it is information. It seems from what I’ve read you are still searching to create who you are and if that is the case, don’t rush the self exploration process…time and being one with the universe (not alone) is your friend. Re-read Respectforall post; he's right. 

All the best.  KJ

Thank you for the compliments Samajo. There are times where I feel my responses are a bit direct and sassy, and I have no other idea how to get the point across. And sometimes being blunt leaves no room to escape from the issue being avoided and leaves the reader feeling anxious and unsure.

And so I am glad to hear this hit home for you and know embracing the thoughts, meaning and value, that these words bring forward means you accept that you have the personal power and self love, to make it through this conflicting moment. Hopefully it becomes clear that loving another, without empowering yourself creates sentimental and anemic emotions and feelings, which become hard to escape.

It seems the end point is always the same in this conflict; you or someone you know are at rock bottom (emotionally, or physically, or emotionally, or all 3 plus 1 or 2 more) and there is only one way out, and that is up.

Often the next question is, how do I get the faith when there is nothing left? When you sit down with no one around- no light, no sound, no distraction and no safety net, you very quickly realize there is only one thing that is supporting your very existence, you. And you take the next breath wondering what to do because there is no where to run and no one to call and you learn to do what we all do; put one foot in front of the other. And no- it doesn’t matter if you can’t see the end, or don’t know how many foot steps it will take, nor that you can’t possibly imagine that there is one iota of success in this, or direction…yet just do it. With each step, whether you are scared, angry, emotional, or distressed make sure only the positive comes out. For example, instead of saying how much you don’t like so and so, say who or what you do like. And instead of saying please, say thank you.

And so one day at a time, reading one line at a time, out loud to yourself because the spoken word carries vibrations of its own, breathe; it feels like the end and it really is the beginning and yes, it’s hard, it sucks and cry all you want, and no matter what keep placing one foot in front of the other. It’s going to be ok, you can do this.

KJ

I like the relationship I'm in because the little things that he does, or the look in his eyes is the constant assurance that I need that everything is ok.  I actually feel cherished, and I think that is worth a million.  The amazing thing is that he does it without a word.  So, the fact that men can't always say it doesn't mean that they can't communicate it, or that they don't.  We just have to learn how to listen.  To me, what isn't said is far more powerful than what is.  I agree with all of what has been said here. 

Hey DIVA,

       I am new 2 dis site and dis is my 1st post..but i jus cldnt help commenting.. I feel lik we are 2 of the same. I also have been w/ a man for 4yrs and I am extremely close 2 his son. I do not have children of my own. My boyfriend is a good person just not a good boyfriend. Like you in the beginning I was planning marriage and our future b/c ii jus knew he was my SOULMATE:) after 3 years of cheating,lying and CONSTANT DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA I walked away, but like many times b4 I returned b/c i jus knew this time he "had changed." So, here I am now..YES he has changed but again like u I am not longer that same women((Im back in character..took me a while 2 realize I DNT HAVE 2SETTLE)).So heres the situation. I also want to know HOW DO YOU WALK AWAY??I feel lik im leaving his family, his son, and eveything I have known for the last 4 years..It is such a difficult situation but honestly I dont want this relationship nemor!!! I want sum time 2myself 2 focus on my school, my career and GOD. I feel like this relationship has not only been a hinderance to my future but a down right  nuisance (because I allowed it 2b). MY boyfriend like urs does not take to easy 2 the idea of breaking up but i prayed and I know in my heart its time 2 let go. So Diva if u figure out a peaceful method 2 leave a stressful relationship plz help me..cuz it sounds like we r dating the same man...

2 Evrybdy else post..althought they were not directed towards my situation THANK YOU..they help ppl than u may b aware of!!!!

Diva and Jazz, the two of you have come to a very crucial point in your lives.  Don't let fear keep you from reaching out for your future.  You're right, it's time to bite the bullet and do what needs to be done, because your future depends on it.  If you don't, this is how you will live for the rest of your life, and it'll only get worse....it never gets better.  It really never does.  They always look for reasons why it should be your fault, such as saying that it can't be that bad or you wouldn't be here.  Oddly enough, many times that is what police officers and other officials say...you must like it or you wouldn't keep going back.  Your men are using your emotions to keep you tied to them, and then using the fact that you're there to make it your fault.  It's a trap, a vicious circle, and you're the one who has to take the first courageous step forward to getting out.  Make it as peaceful as you can.  If you have to talk to him, make no accusations, no excuses, just get out.  Give him nothing that he can grab onto to make a fight where there was none.  Walk away, and don't look back.  The ties that bind can sometimes be the ties that strangle, so don't look back.  Look forward to all that you know you can be, especially for your own child, who will be watching you.  That first step is the most fearsome.  But you've come to the right place.  There are many of us who have been through what you're going through, and if you need any advice, or the answers to any questions, or even just a listening ear, we're here for you!  Both of you rock, you're very strong women.  Keep us posted.

Thanks for concern. I am fine. I tried to sit down like civil adults and explain to him the way I was feeling. I told him I was not happy and hadn't been in a long time. I also let him know that our relationship was a hinderance to the things I want to do. The one semester I was not with him I earned a 4.0 G.P.A. I was focused, driven, and happy. When I am with him I do good (3.5 G.P.A) but I do not excel. There are so many things I want to do. I want to travel, I would love to start a non-profit organization for abused children, I also want to attend law school. All these goal are obtainable, but not if I stay in this relationship.

I let him know that I was tired of the stress and constant chaos. I attempted to explain to him that as a woman I need stabilty and security, and he was providing neither. It was exhausting trying to make the relationship work with the trust was long gone.  

Here was his response:

" You are just trying to use any excuse you can come up with to mess with other men. I know you have been cheating on my the whole time (I HAVE NEVER CHEATED). You dont have sex with me so you must have somebody on the side. (no desire wat so ever). You never have time (I work 2 jobs, 14hours a day). I do everything for this relationship (NOT). I love you. There is no body else I want to be with. YOu are blowing all this way out of porportion. I know I was wrong in the beginning but I have changed. beg, beg, beg..plead, plead, plead. All things I have heard before time and time again...

So now we are in the phase where I recieve text messages and voice mails all day. You know the: Im sorry, I love you, bible quotes, love conquer all, etc. I know I am going to have to talk to him a few more time but at least I took the first step to ended it and the was letting him know I was moving on and not with him!!!

Thanks again for the concern and support. You are all amazingKeep me in your prayers